If you missed Part 1 of our 2012 College Football Preview Roundtable, check it out before reading our conclusion, which includes quite the UT vs. Vandy fans battle AND our first week’s college pick ‘em.
Joseph: Jayzor – You want to include anything on this first Round Table? I’m gonna start formatting it tonight or tomorrow for post on Thursday.
All – speak now or forever hold your peace.
Jayzor: Here are my thoughts, wise ones.
1) Anyone who badmouths Coach James Franklin is jealous. Fact. Any Tennessee Volunteers fan would take him in a millisecond.
2) Vanderbilt won’t keep CJF forever, but every year that they do, they will improve. They are getting closer and closer to being relevant on a national stage.
3) Vanderbilt will play with a lot of emotion on Thursday night against South Carolina, but they will likely come up short. Here’s why. South Carolina has four years of top tier recruits. Vanderbilt has two years of those. Depth, boys.
4) Personally, I hope Derek Dooley is perpetually 7-5. In my opinion, 6-6 gets him fired. 8-4 or better, and people might actually start to think he’s a good coach. (For the record, they would be wrong.)
5) It’s only a matter of time until Vanderbilt has a Da’Rick Rogers/Michael Dyer/Isaiah Crowell situation, right?
6) Thought of the day. Is there a high school team that could beat Ole Miss? My thought is yes. There must be. One of those Rancho schools out in California.
7) Finally, I’ve got a BOLD prediction. An SEC team will once again win the national championship, and it won’t be Tennessee or Vanderbilt.
Clayton: 1) Why do Vanderbilt fans feel like just because they finally have a coach who isn’t complacent losing and being mediocre that everyone else surely must be super jealous of their coach? I mean welcome to the game but that isn’t a revolutionary concept to SEC football. Franklin has brought Vanderbilt up to speed with the rest of the SEC but that doesn’t make him God’s gift to football or even an elite SEC coach.
4) No one thinks Derek Dooley is the savior of Tennessee football. Why Vanderbilt fans love to talk bad about him I genuinely don’t understand. They seem to constantly be trying to push this agenda that Tennessee fans need to wake up and realize Dooley isn’t Nick Saban but no one thinks that. There is a HUGE gap in the spectrum from thinking it’s too soon and unnecessary to set the program back another four years by ditching him to thinking he’s Vince Dooley incarnate.
5) Recruiting talent inherently means recruiting attitude and ego these days. As the talent pool goes up so does the risk factor for incidents. You can try to recruit only all high character saintly guys all day long but not if you want to keep your job. Being a good leader as a head coach is certainly a factor as well and trying to put up walls to prevent these things but these are all college kids who have been told over and over that they are the shit and some are going to act accordingly. A good coach is one that understands this and has his players as interchangeable as possible. When you have dramatic drop offs in ability, you have a problem at the top and someone isn’t doing their job well enough.
Jayzor: 1) Woody Widenhofer. Watson Brown. Gerry Dinardo. Robbie Caldwell. Bobby Johnson. You’re right. We are glad that we don’t have those coaches. But CJF is God’s gift to football. He was able to do what no other coach (that was brave to take a crappy Vanderbilt job) could do in less than 2 years…as you said, “bring Vandy up to speed in the SEC.” As a 28 year old lifelong Vandy fan, I can tell you…that makes him a great college football coach.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, Derek Dooley has been able to accomplish what no other coach has been able to accomplish in the past 20+ years… make UT (a program with great tradition, phenomenal facilities, and proud boosters) mediocre.
All I’m saying is that one program is ascending while the other is descending. I’m not saying that Vandy is better than UT. I’m not saying that UT fans love Dooley. They shouldn’t. Vandy fans should. Because if this trajectory continues, Vandy might just surpass the Vols as the premier program in Tennessee. It hasn’t happened yet, but it could someday.
That’s all I’m saying.
Colin: SHOTS FIRED!!
Brett: What exactly do you mean by “relevant on a national stage?” Uganda is “relevant” at the UN. I suppose.
I don’t know how of Tennessee’s faults you can lay at Dooley’s feet. The apple cart was already starting to come undone, particularly with Lane Kiffin’s last recruiting class of miscreants that now dominates prison intermurals.
Assuming two things (Vandy keeps winning and Franklin stays), Vanderbilt still has two major hurdles before they can talk seriously about overtaking Tennessee as the top program in the state.
A) Facilities. Releasing new uniforms at Barnes and Noble is cute and all, but Vanderbilt needs a serious upgrade in facilities. What they have proposed is nice, but they are still squarely last last in the SEC. The stadium is small, McGuigan is out dated, and although there are new football facilities being built, they are being shared with the student body. Don’t think other SEC schools won’t mention that.
B) Fan support. The days of 25K in the stands and Alabama fans buying Vanderbilt season tickets just for one game need to end. Students are more invested than when I was in school (2008-2011) but Vanderbilt still has the least support of any school in the SEC.
Oh, and one bad season and/or Franklin bolts, the gig is up.
Clayton: How is leaving a coordinator position at an ACC school to be a head football coach at any SEC school brave? You have no expectations and if you don’t succeed you have plenty to blame when applying for your next job. However, if you go 6-7 you literally have fans deem you God’s gift to football.
Tennessee won 5 games under Fulmer in 2005 and 2008. Kiffin won 7 in 2009. Things have been on the down slide for a while now. You don’t fire your coach of 17 years who is an alumni if things aren’t on the way down. Dooley has done nothing but maintain that mediocre level with mediocre talent (by SEC standards).
Jayzor: 1) Vandy will NEVER have the facilities that Tennessee has.
2) And you are definitely right. Vandy can’t even fill the smallest stadium in the SEC.
3) By relevant on a national stage, I mean, competitive in an SEC East race. They are not there yet, but who knows what CJF could do with a few more years?
4) I’m not blaming Dooley for all of UT’s faults, but I am saying that Franklin entered into a worse situation (Vandy in 2010) than Dooley when he was hired at UT early in 2010.
Maintaining mediocrity is the mark of a mediocre football coach. Even I could maintain mediocrity at UT, and I’ve never played football.
Clayton: And I’m arguing that winning 7 games at UT gets you fired and winning 7 at Vanderbilt makes you God’s gift to football. It’s hardly fair to measure the two coaches with the same measuring stick.
Warner: There is not a high school team that could beat Ole Miss. I hope that was a joke. Until you find a high school where every person is an FBS prospect, it wouldn’t happen. Yeah we’ve been beaten by Jacksonville State, and obviously all of them were not FBS prospects, but saying that a high school team could beat us is akin to saying that Kentucky Basketball could have beaten the Charlotte Bobcats last season. It just wouldn’t happen. I would love to see a freshman high school kid that is thrown into the game because the two guys in front of him went down go up against an SEC, albeit shitty, offensive line.
Ole Miss is terrible; I am firmly aware. But when Ole Miss is terrible, we are still in another league in comparison to Vandy in their bad years in terms of support, talent, etc.
Vandy has been the saving grace of SEC academics since the beginning of time. Thanks for that. Enjoy the 7-5 seasons while they last. It won’t be long before CJF is someplace else, the fans are back wherever they were before, and all is normal in the SEC which likely includes having Ole Miss in the cellar with y’all.
Jayzor: I’m just pleased that Ole Miss somehow is Vanderbilt’s “natural rival,” which assures one SEC win each season no matter how bad we are or how poorly we are supported.
But you’re right, win or lose, tailgating at the Grove is a great time for both teams’ fans!
Warner: I also think it’s funny we had 60 emails with little to no trash talking and then BOOM VANDY FAN GOES FOR THE JUGULAR!
Clayton: That’s kind of like how Memphis and Vanderbilt are natural rivals of Tennessee because we are in the same state. I genuinely don’t mean this in a cocky way but Tennessee fans in East Tennessee consider both a significant afterthought and both Memphis and Vanderbilt seemingly build their seasons around trying to take shots at Tennessee. The easy rebuttal joke is that we barely beat Vanderbilt or Memphis anymore, and while that is true, we are still prideful enough in our tradition to know where we’ve been and what level we want to be on.
I bit my tongue during the Da’Rick jokes because he’s clearly a moron and deserves to be made fun of. But when Vandy fans cross the line and start making assumptions and heralding James Franklin king, my computer’s well being is in jeopardy too.
This side comes out…
Jayzor: Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. I love it. Both videos are fantastic, and I hope they make it on the Wise Guise.
No disrespect to anyone…well, except Da’Rick Rogers. He’s disrespected himself, his family, his former university, and his future (and potentially current) children. Everyone else, you’re still on my good side. All playful banter in the name of fun and the love of the game #costnerclassic
Joseph: I knew we had some left in us before we post on Thursday morning.
And, by “knew we had some left in us,” I knew that this first college football roundtable to preview the season:
(a) needed some more debate, disagreement, and sass; and
(b) the two men who would give that to us would be two of my best friends who are not only the biggest, but the most legitimate fans of Vanderbilt and UT, respectively.
Well done, gents.
To all: keep any questions, comments, or trash talk coming until Wednesday afternoon, if you so wish.
Clayton: Can we all rally and come to agreement on this being awesome?
Brett: I’m playing Devils advocate here, but it would be good for Vandy to, ya know, beat Tennessee. I understand frustrating long losing streaks to a rival. I witnessed the Chris Simms era.
Jameer: Vandy fans talk a lot of sh*t for only beating UT once in my lifetime (22 years). I never thought I’d live to see the day that vandy talks trash to anyone, let alone their daddy that lives 2.5 hours down the road. Vandy, take a page out of the Uganda little league team’s book: just sit back and enjoy yourselves when you happen to stumble upon an ounce of relevance. You didn’t see that Uganda team mouthing off to Japan did you? To their credit, they did beat Oregon. So Vandy fans, feel free to flaunt your stuff in front of MTSU.
Clayton, nice work today.
Jayzor, you got me hyped up for football season even more! The best time of the year is almost here.
Brett, I don’t know you, but I applaud you.
J Joseph Williams, when I used the term “Vandy fans” in the first paragraph, I just meant Jayzor.
Joseph: I stand with Jayzor.
Jayzor: If I can get a UT fan that riled up, I have done my job. Today was a success. Jameer, you’re a good man. Yep, I’m a Vandy fan and proud of it. We’re becoming so relevant that soon, you may have to capitalize Vandy every time you use it #grammarburn
Funke: Vanderbilt will $#%@ you up.
Brett: Franklin seems to have mixed some awfully powerful kool aid. We’ll find out this season if there’s arsenic in it.
Jayzor: Brett Good went to Vandy, but obviously still has ties to the real UT (University of Texas). If you want to see unadulterated, pure Vanderbilt fandom (for better or worse), please see Robert Funke’s previous post. Now that is one mother effin’ Vandy fan!
Brett: Related side note, I think it could be hilarious to do a post where we all flame each other teams. For example, jayzor could get me and do a post about how much he hates Mack brown, Vince young couldn’t balance a check book to save his life, and colt mccoy just got beat out in Cleveland by Jim morris from the rookie
Joseph: Colt McCoy’s Problem in the BCS Championship Game: not enough heart.
Colt McCoy’s Problem in the NFL: He doesn’t have Jordan Shipley any more. They knew each other’s bodies.
And thus concludes the first college football roundtable discussion from The Wise Guise! Below we would also like to introduce a weekly slate of college football picks. Each week Clayton will choose between 5-10 games and the guys will make predictions. Each correct pick will earn you a point, which we will keep a running count of throughout the season. The following are the week one game selections and picks…